Theyve always said when we have verifiable evidence to say a mountain lion has been, is, or was in the state that wed acknowledge that and give that information out, says Pat Tate, the furbearer biologist with New Hampshire Fish and Game, who insists theres no conspiracy. Peter Biello: But clearly you know you're saying like hoaxes people who claim to have seen a mountain lion but knowingly have not or are appropriating photos taken elsewhere of legit mountain lion say out West where they people acknowledge that they exist certainly knowingly or unknowingly in this case the person who sent it to me said hey a friend of mine sent me this photo and said he took it on his back porch also. Or years or so. So I know it's another unconfirmed report but you string enough of these together. And so far we have not had any positive mark lion scats or any DNA. It's got a a smudge of black and bobcats and links just don't have that we don't have any other cards. Just. Sam Evans-Brown has been working for New Hampshire Public Radio since 2010, when he began as a freelancer. We we hear that there is allegedly a government conspiracy to deny the existence of mountain lions here in New Hampshire so I guess a local government conspiracy. So for our scientists to do the lumping and whatnot. He was just walking along the river then went up into the woods . So before we get to the the the the stories of sightings we're getting a lot of calls. . Patrick Tate: While a juvenile not a juvenile I guess if you want nodes to the base of the tail for juvenile that wouldn't be small at all. Here it is. Tonight, Sean McDonald . And a lot of people around the county airport have seen a lot of pilots coming in said they saw huge. So here in New Hampshire when a person turns in something that the Department believes is possible mountain lion and believes it should be investigated further. So the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station has a database on mountain lion and they can identify. It doesn't happen as much anymore. Do they travel. Since then, there have been a handful of confirmed mountain lion sightings in the Northeast, although most have been thought to be escaped captive animals. Sam Evans-Brown: Pretty well I was going to say it is nice to hear about how to identify the facial markings but probably I'd being a to identify the tracks is probably the more useful useful tool that one can have in their tool box. This is not the same as saying that there has never been a mountain lion seen in New Hampshire. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an HD PR fine Peter Biello and today we're talking with folks who can tell us about the mysterious elusive mountain line and whether or not it is actually here in New Hampshire. Have you seen one. Patrick Tate: It's wow interesting that you brought this up because I've had people report I saw cardamom. However the scarring on the trees did not and the angles were off. Join as a sustainer and support independent local news for your community. The great thing about pictures isn't the animal itself it's the background. And still the the folks there did weren't able to come up with it with 100 percent certainty what deposited that scat. Theres tracks everywhere. By, March 2023 Fund Drive Rules and Regulations, Persons with disabilities who need assistance accessing NHPR's FCC public files, please contact us at publicfile@nhpr.org. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. Peter Biello: We mentioned that the eastern cougar and the Western cougar are they were separate eastern cougar believed to be extinct. Right. Rick van de Poll: Yes. Caller: I do. Home; Archivos. And it's not really strong. Patrick Tate: So the individuals can say that but for an agency that's based on science and what not to to go off with no evidence and then get into that giant debate and all these other issues and put credibility at risk I don't think that would be a great path to take. Patrick Tate: I don't believe it is. So what those ranges. And those are not the same things. Rick van de Poll: Absolutely. Thank you very much for being here. DNA from scat or from fur, a clear track that is confirmed by an expert, or a photo that clearly shows a mountain lion. But if you were to get Western dispersing mountain lions just would just sort of expanding into New Hampshire. State officials have said, over and over in recent years, that the eastern mountain lion has been completely wiped out from the Northeast. Okay. The second story window through about 30 feet away from it. My wife and I saw a mountain lion. Kansas officials think a mountain lion recently roamed through Shawnee County. The Idaho Department of Fish and Game last week killed a mountain lion that entered a Hailey family's chicken coop, marking the third time the agency has killed a mountain lion in the Wood River . It's not an emerging endangered species no work no there are there are populations in specific states so the Florida panther is is an endangered species that sub population is in fact listed under the Endangered Species Act. It was a 3:45 pm on the east side of the river . Is there a way we can learn more about these dispersing mountain lions that may travel through the Granite State and that I would ask you certainly part about whether or not a he's spending too much time chasing down these kind of false leads or B would rather be doing something else that is more informative to whether or not we actually have or can prove that we have dispersing mountain lions in the state. This is the exchange. Is there something particularly hospitable about New Hampshire Forests that make them want to come here. Peter Biello: They make great mascots at least. Which brings us to the next question, what are the odds that some of these reported sightings (which, when I posted about this on twitter, I immediately started to get as well) are actually people seeing a mountain lion? They're the generalists that made it through both the arrival of the Clovis people with their with their spears and then the Europeans with their guns. However, dispersing western mountain lions have left evidence as close as Connecticut, Massachusetts and New York. New York on Easter Sunday. The views expressed in this program are those of the individuals and not those of an HP are its board of trustees or its underwriters. So. It was really muscular looking cat I mean is that like a side angle to me. Now Bobcat is a completely different species. And those and that's how you can go from a story that Pat says I have nothing to say about that to a story that you know could be the first verified sighting in over 100 years. I saw the tail end of a literally from behind the shoulder The Long Tail mountain lion crossing the highway going from Password to often Village downtown. #4. Sam Evans-Brown: One in fact Helena silver in that sort of tome that Rick van de Poll read from at the beginning is she. Peter Biello: Well I want to ask Patrick about one of these stories a few years ago you had a story about someone who claimed to. Author of The last woman in the forest on Saturday July 13th at 7 p.m. at Warner town hall Warner historical dawg. Patrick Tate: Well I've never seen an Easter cougar so I can't say when I've handled these 10 cougars and whatnot. The engineers Dan Colgan our senior producer is Allan Grimm. And to anyone listening I would just say you know fishing game who wants proof right. support for an HBO who comes from you our listener Sam from advanced in you a local New Hampshire nonprofit specializing in college student loans and student refinancing options. For instance, Floridas wildlife officials have a similar ghost cat: the black panther. I think that you probably are. Mike thanks for your call. It's completely possible that it may have spent time in New Hampshire and went undetected but had it stayed in the area ultimately it would have been detected over time. Patrick Tate: So Cougar Mountain Lion katama. Through DNA they approximate area in the United States or North America where I was born. A middle school in Manchester, New Hampshire has sent out an alert after a mountain lion was spotted. Its closest living relative is the cheetah. Think you've seen a mountain lion. I mean so what what is the practical change that it would bring to New Hampshire if any. Part II. And the cougar embodies that. What do you think that. And Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. So this whole illegal pet trade black market pro trade thing does does exist in a situation like that can happen. Caller: Oh hi. The second one was not only fresh but when I actually put my hand on it it was you know smelled like cat and I it's there's no denying a fresh mountain lions get if you can tell it every story that KOAT. Almost all species disperse greater distances than females. They peaked in . In Vermont, it was 1881. They don't know the direction they're going. Thanks for calling. Patrick Tate: So it's interesting it's brought up. Having not found any evidence is not the same as saying there are no mountain lions, its the same as saying we dont know. They are the same thing. But along the lines of the conspiracy theories as you mentioned earlier there there was a bit of a sense on behalf of what I'll call the promo online community who felt that fishing gain maybe not even so much in a spoken policy but maybe sort of an unspoken policy did not want to find themselves in a situation where they had to spend money to create a management plan and so forth. Patrick Tate: I would say well when social media first started they picked up the hoaxes became much more prevalent in the last four or five years hoaxes have died down completely. So we're fixated on natural but there's other possibilities. And sometimes I've seen pictures of those where it's the question is What is that is that a bobcat. As wildlife biologists, wed be fascinated to say 'look look what was found in our state.'. There have been several alleged sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. For all the men out there that don't realize it. I'm Peter Biello. Why are there so many false positives? Yes and you want to share what you learned. And you know it's rather interesting because certainly there are those you as a case of mistaken identity or they wanted to see something that perhaps they actually didn't. Peter Biello: Mm hmm. But my experience was that the majority of these accounts could not be taken lightly. Love hearing these stories. No that's a little bit outside the range. Rick van de Poll: 80 90. And I saw you cat about four feet long from nose to tail come across from the water across the road and just leap over a six foot perimeter fence in a single bound. Right. People have asked me about the genetics of eastern mountain lion. This is where things start breaking down when you so I get pictures with this great description and one of my favorite stories is a great description what the witness and then so I called the witness and wanted information from them and the person says What are you talking about. I would say that there's going to be the truth in here somewhere. Let's talk to Mike in Webster. Can you look into this picture. Peter Biello: What about the idea of tourism like us leaving aside the fact that it is not on the Endangered Species Act is it. Is that typically what was happening there. Rick van de Poll: Rick your thoughts. Do we have native species that could have exhibited this type of behavior leaving leaving a deer carcass up in a tree. Peter Biello: Rick I believe you did mention that that they do leave carcasses up in the tree from time to time but are there any other species known in New Hampshire to do this on a regular basis. Well let's hear from from Sue Morse again science director for the organization keeping track. I just stood there just a second and I came to a complete stop and then I ran away. Phone number 1 800. On a dirt road. There is some information that suggests that it spent a portion of its time in Massachusetts near the Claiborne reservoir. Patrick Tate: I've from all the situations I've read and learned about wildlife. Mike Guyton pressure was almost Greyhound like very muscular large back legs on it and the coloration on it was almost an orange brownish orange color and so I stop and I look at this thing in the field and as the animal looks at me the face was very chiseled definitely not a bobcat. Have you heard stories do you have questions about the mountain line. Wed love to be part of the first verified sighting. People go through great lengths to create hoaxes like this. Sam Evans-Brown: And second the evidence required is is you know pretty pretty tough to gather. And I I have this great text history of New Hampshire game and fir bears and I think by Helen Silver who used to work for fish and game and she sort of I kind eyes this animal in one of the quotes from 1892 stating that the catamaran was the most ferocious of all the wild beasts of New Hampshire his great size strength and agility of movement together with his formidable weapons rendered him the terror both of man and beast. So let's let's go to the phones. And today we're talking about the mysterious elusive mountain line with folks who know something about it. Sue Morse: First and foremost if you have color or if you could see details of color look at the front of the face around the Pumas muzzle the muzzle itself is pure white. So we tossed these terms around but really the term subspecies has been sort of redefined in our lifetimes. This animal, IMHO, was probably live caught as an adult from the wild and brought to the . Yeah 13 to 15 years ago 13 to 15 years ago. 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